GREENFIRE - All Comments

re: Together in 2012: Why we need an association merger in Outdoor/Experiential Education

Leigh Jackson-Magennis — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 15:21:20 GMT

I think we are a big and diverse community, often times having different needs/benefiting from different conferences. However, I do believe that many of us are torn when it comes to budget cuts and making these choices. I would and do attend at least two of the aforementioned conferences each year, but it would be nice to have a large conference until the economy has an upturn. It would be interesting to see whether or not folks would feel that they had enough workshops specific to their needs...but the social night life would be great. I think the conference would need to be longer, at a big venue, and I think this would be the year to try it. It may not work, but why not try?

Leigh Jackson-Magennis

re: Together in 2012: Why we need an association merger in Outdoor/Experiential Education

Outdoor Ed — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:52:32 GMT

Genevieve, great point. One of the things that I think the entire field can do is to share more on the Web. Conferences, while really important, only happen once a year. What about the other 360-some days? Sites like OutdoorEd.com let us exchange ideas and information all year long. And with the economy, people and programs have less funds to go to conferences making the Web the best place to gather.

Rick Curtis

re: Together in 2012: Why we need an association merger in Outdoor/Experiential Education

Genevieve Marchand — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:32:02 GMT

I completely agree with you Jay. As a student and hopefully soon to be professor, I don't have the money or time to go to 3 conferences. I feel divided between what I need to do and what I would like to do. There is a real sense to me that there is two types of people that attend these conferences: the ones that are very competitive and protective of their association, and the ones that are not. I might be exaggerating, but I feel torned every time. Part of me wants to be loyal and keep my contact with one conference (which as been AEE and WEA for the most part), while I crave to be able to meet others at AORE.

I think this dialogue is important and I hope you keep it going. There is a lot to think about.

re: Last Child In the Woods?

jverkamp — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:13:16 GMT

I believe what you said about giving the kids a "kick in the pants" is why I am in the industry. To push children / young adults and show them the way to having the confidence to feel comfortable in the wilderness is a great feeling. Often times the individual is too young to appreciate it at the moment but once back in the "life of luxury", I am confident it has a profound effect in the way he or she carries himself and in turn treats others.

re: Jumping the Railing: Is Outdoor Education Losing Its Sense Of Adventure?

David Posey — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:53:52 GMT

I wouldn't say we have lost our sense of adventure. I would say that perhaps in our circle of associates, families, friends there may be some loss of wonderment at the surrounding world. But out side this circle there is very much a large prortion of folks who such experiences would be a first.

I just finished up a 5 year career working with youth-at-risk at an outdoor therapuetic school. Many of our clients were Department of Juvenile Services etc. sent. Many did not want to be there but new freedom from the system would be their reward for completing the program. Many had no experience in th outdoors at all. To them everything was new. Some appreciated it right off the bat, others...well...had to grow with it.

When I came to the school I had a lot of experience and had become very nonchalant about experiencing the outdoors. But working with these youth reopened my eyes and helped me re-value my experiences. So, in short perhaps its not new, bigger, better, faster experiences we should be seeking to get that fascinated exhilrated spirit. Rather getting in touch with those who have no such background.

It is pretty safe to say that those of us who seek fulfillment in such endeavors are not the majority, but rather the minority. For if we were, then the world and its natural places would not be in the jeopardy they are. The railings wouldn't be in place, nor would we need rangers to close an area off.

re: Industrial Strength Recreation? Greening Outdoor Education

little_beaver66 — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:11:18 GMT

check out nortland college website outdoor ed dept. my classmates and i put together a model that was presented in sandiego last month. the model is "titled"

As Susatainable as possible. LNT hummm!

re: Can't We All Just Get Along?

Outdoor Ed — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 15:14:40 GMT

Jay, you are right on target. It's interesting to look at how other aspects of the Outdoor Industry handle this. Look at the Outdoor Retailers show, competitors from all over the world come together to present their products and they manage to get along. It's surprising that on our end where we pride ourselves on team building that we continue to be so 'silo oriented'

One of the reasons that I started building this site was because it was clear to me that the Web was a more neutral place that can serve as a gathering point.

Rick Curtis

re: Can't We All Just Get Along?

Traveler — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:03:39 GMT

It would take some incredible logistics and committment....but I agree that one mega-conference would be an interesting change. The benefits are large but it requires that we adhere to one of our guiding principles as outdoor professionals........flexibility. There is no group stronger when it comes to this.

Jonathan

re: Industrial Strength Recreation? Greening Outdoor Education

Traveler — Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:40:20 GMT

As Aldo Leopold once remarked,

"Perhaps the most serious obstacle impeding the evolution of a land ethic is the fact that our educational and economic system is headed away from, rather than toward, an intense consciousness of the land."

I would encourage those who are interested in moving this discussion forward to join AORE's Environmental Stewardship Committee. Please contact me if you would like to assist.

Best regards,

Jonathan Milne

AORE Environmental Stewardship Chair

re: Industrial Strength Recreation? Greening Outdoor Education

VidyutKale — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 17:32:08 GMT

"Do your participants leave your program with a sense of an environmental ethic that can carry beyond the initial experience?"

Hit me hard. HARD.

I am guilty. I love the environment, follow leave no trace practices, organize clean up drives. But Do my participants leave your program with a sense of an environmental ethic that can carry beyond the initial experience? NO. My introduction to the program usually has a few words I say about it. But do I stress it? No.

And here I go around acting holier than thou about people who follow unsafe practices, litter and don't appreciate the outdoors, but the simple fact remains that I don't go that extra mile to get that concern established in the minds of my participants who are so willing to listen to all I have to say.

My website above doesn't do anything about it either to do that, beyond a few ancient blog entries.

Thank you for making me aware of this.

This is about to change ASAP. My website will have a prominent section about the environment, and every programme that follows as well.

Thanks again.

re: How the Mountains Teach Democracy

VidyutKale — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 17:17:47 GMT

Its strange how two people at two far away places can think in such similar ways. This structure you are speaking of, is the very thing that pushed my husband and I to begin our own outdoor adventure services.

The scene in India is not as full of red tape, but there are other problems. There is very little experimentation. "Outdoor Experiential Learning" in one size that fits all! How much more bizarre can we get?

I think, when adventure becomes a business, there comes a point where passion dissolves into the routine. Then, the need is not so much of the adventure experience, as the payment and "good feedback". So, if one progrmme design works, why fix it?

Your post makes me see how fortunate I am to be in the outdoor profession in India, where I can get all kinds of adventures without needing a passport. I had gone on auto-pilot bemoaning the lack of structures, not in programmes, but certification, licencing, etc. But I never stopped to appreciate that this very lack of structure allowed me to do my thing as "free style" as I like. (This is about designing programmes, not liberties with safety and stuff)

re: Last Child In the Woods?

Nikkabug — Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:09:54 GMT

I'm glad you mentioned that book. I think everyone, whatever field they are in, can take a lot from Louv's research and opinions.

re: Industrial Strength Recreation? Greening Outdoor Education

educator4nature — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:05:29 GMT

Jay, I can't agree with you more. I have worked as an environmental educator, an outdoor education leader and as an adventure education facilitator. For me, it was natural to combine my skills to "green up" the groups I was facilitating and facilitate the groups I was teaching environmental education. Many facilitators I have worked with were not green themselves; so incorporating these qualities was difficult. They had to learn first, then try to implement them.

As for greening an organization, that needs to be made a priority by the management and not just a nice thing to do if they can fit it in somewhere. It is wonderful to see there are others out there with a similar outlook.